It's because you gave me this account and you subconsciously will read anything that I post whether you want or not =D
..that's my guess anyhow.

I had no idea about Pitchfork hype when I first listened to Wavves, I was more interested in the blog hype about Wavves (all the usual blogs I go to that usually turn me onto good stuff.. even experimental etc has Wavves fever!). And what can I say? Wavves is great shit. Just really good songs. Sure, it's not as great (or as lousy) as some people keep trying to make 'em out to be... but in the here and now, in 04/2009, they're an awesome, competent, pop band. I don't care about 15 years from now, I doubt I'll be alive around then, and Wavves definitely won't be together, so why worry about that.

....In general, I wouldn't really trust Pitchfork, for reasons I've given before (it's been proven that they give good reviews to labels that pay them lots of money for ad space, at least in the past.. though I doubt that policy has changed). Blastitude, Brainwashed, Dusted, and Perfect Sounds Forever (though they don't update much).. and blogs of course... are much better sources for discovering new music.

Still, I listen to lots of noise and drone and all that stuff and it's nice to listen to Wavves, who aren't doing anything groundbreaking but just the fact that they can write damn good songs excites me in the here and now. And it's nice to see that they're getting relatively popular. No reason to shit on good music. There's a million other awful bands that get popular we should be shitting on instead.

do you mean he will be dismantled by a bulldozer?? cause nathan williams, alias wavves, is actually a unique person :p

Hah. I just mean, I don't necessarily see him continuing the project for 15 years. Who knows.

it's not just the lyrics that suck about wavves, their songs are all really samey. go on to their myspace and flick between the songs wavves and bored and they are totally interchangable.

anyway, the reason people talk about modest mouse over bands that are new and good is because modest mouse are part of the alt rock canon and say, drunkdriver, aren't. It doesn't matter that drunkdriver are way better to listen to, what matters is that having an opinion on a non-canonical band is like having an opinion on something outside of social norms, at best people just ignore it.
But what a waste of energy though, griping about a band who fell off 10 years ago!

why does Modest Mouse suck so bad now?

easy answer:

The Flaming Lips.


(although I wouldn't totally discount "mental issues". Isaac requires a handler wherever he goes. don't believe me? ask the germans.)

ahah, don't worry, I was just kidding. And yeah Wavves probably won't last that long. Or at least, not in that way, his music will have to change at some point.

To me they didn't fall off 10 years ago though. If anyhing maybe 4 years ago. So I'm looking for them to redeem themselves soon.

Also, I've heard Drunkdriver mentioned in two topics now, I think I'm going to try to check them out. At a college campus so I can't download, and none of their stuff is on Youtube or last.fm... how will I find it? :|

Also, how is Flying Lotus?

Song is one trick.
Noise breakdown another trick.
Two-trick pony.

I don't really care what any particular person likes now. But while "now" is a great time for music thanks to the expansion of the definition of psychedelic and the freer adoption of this expanding definition by bands and fans formerly isolated by often arbitrary genre ghetto boundaries, I'd say that it's a shame if a so-called serious music fan failed to wake up to this while it was happening....and that maybe in 15 years when this stuff becomes ripe for reissuing, only then will the realize that they missed out on something influential on "then" before they got married and made a family and could never go out.

hipster cred

That's real hip, dude.

Don't enjoy anything now because your mid-life crisis self will regret not being apart some retro-hyped scene. It sounds like you've read too many No Wave documentaries.

Wavves is great. Its just catchy. And who the fuck even bothers trying to figure out his lyrics. Why bother.

Maybe you should try listening to his radio show, read his blog, and just think twice before you open your mouth. It wouldn't exactly help 'cause I think you're not even worthy, but really, do the flaming with people who at least really deserve it. You're disgusting. You really are.

Does it sound like I'm bitter for missing out on the past? I'm talking about "now" if you haven't noticed. I was born 10 years too late to know what no wave was when it was happening. But I wasn't bitter about being born too late because I was born just in time to enjoy Sonic Youth at their peak, Thinking Fellers, The Clean, Public Enemy, reading Forced Exposure, etc., etc. I have enjoyed that No Wave book for its historical perspective, but with all the great music I've enjoyed since finding freeform radio and zines and meeting friends who enjoy lotsa great music, too, I still don't get the least bit nostalgic for what I missed while I was watching Sesame Street.

[rhetorical]Are you an offended Modest Mouse fan, or are you just bitter or contrarian in general (or just on the internet)?[/rhetorical]

I've never liked them. They have always sucked for me.

You know the best thing about Wavves? In that song so bored he sings 'Christian Death shirt'. You know the best thing about Drunkdriver? Their Christian Death cover. Coincidence? I think not.

boredom goth vs. anger goth

I thought I was supposed to be the douchebag?

I know this sounds a bit egotistical, but when wavves started blowin up, all these ppl were like u gotta check em out, they're kind of like y r band.

I checked em out, and thought it was ok, but to be honest, a less creative version of what I'm doing.

I don't dislike them, they write catchy songs, which is what I do. But all their shit is too similar. I dunno maybe I'm just being cynical.

Fine, fair enough. But I still don't see why "serious music fans" should only chase after what is influential and have no respect for anything of the era that isn't bleeding edge. This is why you raised the halcyon age point, correct? Modest Mouse aren't pioneering anything so why waste your time either way? Honestly I can't imagine any of the Modest Mouse fans here say that everything else new nowadays is shit, anyway. Hopefully I misunderstood your point.

Also, going after only influential music is absurd because you never know what will and will not be influential on future music, I mean what the hell? Maybe a new sound will catch on, maybe it won't.

There have been moments in the last couple years where I have been at a show enjoying myself immensely, and when I turned around, I saw every person in that room obviously enjoying themselves just as much, and that included people ranging in age and walk-of-life from teens to middle-aged record collector and various ethnicities, orientations, and gender identities. And we were all enjoying music which was diversely influenced. Therefore, I do suppose that the band would have diverse influence going forward.

Generally, bands that are diversely influenced may become diversely influential. And vice versa.....like, skapunk for instance. Whereas the first few bands to introduce ska to punk rock were hugely influential, helping usher in the enormous dub influence evident in postpunk, there was a certain evolution of skapunk which narrowed itself into oblivion after spiking the punch only minimally with an inbred strain of pop-punk and "melodic hardcore" in the early- to mid-90s. Checking back on the development of other strands of evolution tracing back to the Specials via the Pop Group and Mark Stewart + the Maffia, you would find stuff like Scorn and too many genres of techno and jungle/dnb to name half of them.

What is the most influential is the best of what's happening in any era, and that's why I would just suppose anyone who calls themselves a "serious" music fan to at least try it on for size. (And if they don't like it, just wait for the next thing, or start your own band. Hey, I account for variances in taste!)

So, what's next? Shall we argue about what I mean by "serious" or "fan"?

The age range of good bands and their audiences where I live is enormous.
Rick, you are dead on with this assessment of Thee Current Times.
Ten years ago, I couldn't stand pretty much any band from the twin cities, and for the past six years I've been curating a three-day festival every year featuring anywhere from 20-30 interesting acts from my area alone, and every year the amount of good music we have to leave off the festival due to time constraints only grows. I know it's like this in other places too.
Age feels like it matters less now than it ever has, too, which is great. Some of our "best friend bands" are nearly young enough to be our kids, and I feel zero division.

Nah, I'm evidently ruffling too many feathers with my tactless probing. Sorry for the mess.

Wait so Rick, *do* you listen to music for enjoyment, like, at all? >.>

Yes, he does.

Yeah, he name dropped the Thinking Fellers; no matter else gets said, he's the fucking man in my book.

Arguements like the one in this thread only ever seem to develop when the thread starts off about Modest Mouse, My Blloody Valentine or Flaming Lips. It always ends up with two or more people swinging their "My mind is more open than yours!" dicks at each others' faces. Peoople seem afraid to admit theyre judgemental; its not a dirty word, it means using your judgement.

As for Wavves, that album really cheered me up for a week or so, it reminds me of a noisier Grandaddy. I imagine ill dig it out again in a few weeks but its one you have to be careful not to play to death

Don't forget Animal Collective threads!

modest mouse has sucked for over a decade now..last real good album was the long drive for someone wioth nothing to talk about..i think thats the name of it.... again, just an opinion...

Eh, I really like We Were Dead but I don't care for Good News. Maybe I'm weird.

I hope you don't imagine me stroking my beard and furrowing my brow in deep concentration while analyzing every aspect of each new record I hear while comparing it against the greatest records of all time.....I do actually listen to everything for enjoyment. Even if I don't enjoy it....I try to!

That's part of growing up before the age of the self-serve/download-everything-for-free era. When I bought a new record as a kid, you can bet that I mowed a neighbor's lawn or washed someone's car or babysat someone's kid for it....so dammit, if I didn't immediately like a record I had bought, I listened and listened until it clicked, or I'd be trading it back in for store credit. In that way, I do suppose I'm a patient and more contemplative listener than what it typical in today's youth. But that doesn't mean I'm not having fun with music. I probably have more fun with music than anyone I know. (tooting my own horn there....sorry!)

I have enjoyed this thread. Well done all.

We crave your approval.

it's the yelp yelp singing.

plus too much exposure on teen dramas.

Bless you, my son.

You sound like the reason I don't have sex with 16-year-olds.

No you're not weird. We were Dead is a lot better than Good News. A lot.
An argument can be made that we're both weird for liking either album at all though.

Anyway I don't think Modest Mouse will be leaving any time soon. I think Good News was their mainstream plunge and they're turning it back around now. We were Dead was a nice step.

I don't know the band, I haven't met them etc. But over the years they've given me the impression that they like music. There are musicians out there that don't like music.

See, to my mind, a 'serious music fan' listens to very little with guitars. A 'serious music fan' listens to formal academic music (this needn't, strictly speaking, be scored). The notion of a 'bleeding edge' is pretty much a mis-nomer according to my understanding of 'serious music fan'. By this I mean a 'serious music fan' pores over scores and analyses fugues; s/he doesn't actually enjoy music. Not in terms of it being any 'edge'. I know someone who is a very serious scholar of music (he's just completed a PhD) and he almost never actually listens to music. It exists purely in the academic, so-called 'abstract' world of scores. I played him Wavves recently and he said 'there's nearly nothing here, except recording dirt. Do people actually like this music?'

This probably seems like I'm being contrary, but I only want to point out that, to a lot of people out in the real world, outside of this forum, there's a world of music in which Modest Mouse are obscure, yet-to-be-discovered - there's as many narratives to music as there are listeners. I think what pbradley's sort of saying is that there's no obligation to like one thing and thereby spend the rest of time looking for something else. Music is fun, not an obligation, and it's unfair to suggest that a restless curiosity somehow makes a person a 'better' listener (I'd negate the contrary if I could articulate it).