Rob-
Exactly. When I see stuff like that I just have to throw my hands up and think, well what the fuck. Thanks, democracy.

And yeah, I have no fucking idea how he got re-elected. I don't even want to think about it. It definitely had nothing to do with California.

The American people didn't re-elect him, all of the dumbshits that make up the electoral vote did.
Which at the time were conveniently all republican.

Actually, looking back, a big part of the reason was because Kerry was a douche, too.

Yeah, that too.
We were doomed from the start, from the lack of better candidates

The electoral vote is outdated.

mccain vs obama?

no thanks.

if i write someone in my vote basically won't count. and i'm not up for picking the lesser of two assholes.


bilateral party system? suck a nut.

I like Obama as he represents himself, and I have since before he was even in the running. But the mere fact that he made it this far means he's a liar and a terrible person. Other than that, I have no complaints.

Bush is an idiot
but
fair play

how is Obama already an asshole?

Any assholery that Obama may show completely pales in comparison to the amount of assholery that McCain posesses.

if you do not believe in something, it does not exist and it is worth nothing. If you do not believe in the success of the moves you make, then they will not contribute at all to the movement. there is nothing insignificant if it is in a positive direction, every little step counts. we have all got to hold the faith.

you know, they have been doing shit like that since BEFORE George Bush I or II? You were aware of this right? in fact, this kind of shit has been happening since the fucking 17th century!

i validate this point of view
but we're just imagining what these two could be like or do IF......

the USA did not exist in the 17th century

bullshit, the first african slave was brought to Virginia in the 1620s, by the 1640s American slavery of Africans was firmly established, what you speak of is merely a technicality, but the slaves would have argued the there was indeed an America, and they were the slaves which built it. shit, the wall that Named "Wall Street" was built by a dozen African slaves to the dutch. just because it was not called "The United States of America" does not mean it was not america, nor does it mean it is not connected. the racist policies which this country was built upon are the same policies which resulted in the unfortunate incident which you were referring to above. i am a historian remember? everything is connected.

hence, it has been the same bullshit since the 17th century.

I've gone to Christian schools my whole life. I've believed, doubted, and back again more times than I can count and I've watched many friends and family do the same thing. I know how faith works in the good and the bad. I also know that there's almost always a real, good reason for disbelief and apathy--at least in the mind of the person. If anyone wants to believe something, they're going to need a real good reason, and that goes for anything. I don't have a single reason to believe in politics right now.

And you can make a difference when you don't really believe in what you're doing. It happens all the time. Especially in churches.

while yr testimony is good, it is not relevant to the point I was making. You have to believe in the good you are doing, otherwise it will be no good. How can you help people if you do not even believe you can help to begin with? Any benefit becomes merely a technicality, a fluke, and accident even. however, if you believe in yrself and the moves you make, then they will be successful, even if it just at wiping yr own ass or putting on yr shoes!

that would be ENGLAND dude.

before 1776 it was all ENGLAND, so lay the original blame on their asses.

remember that the limey fucks ruled the world after whuppin up on the spanish fops.

But there are people who wipe their ass and put on their shoes every day wanting to die. They live without believing in it. They get help without knowing why. They survive and find happiness. A little emo sounding, but there are so many people like that. Everyone knows people who try to attempt suicide but don't actually go through with it, and end up choosing to live despite their lack of belief in themselves. I feel like that's America's politcal climate right now.

But again, I'm not saying you're wrong. I think your attitude on change is 100% right. Seriously. It's just not as simple as lifting your chin. It's real hard to believe anything can change America, even if belief in change is what will change it. It's a dark tunnel.

i don't care for either mccain or obama or their policies. i will never vote liberal because i'm not going to give the government permission to pickpocket hardworking people and give their money to people who don't deserve it/waste it. i will never vote conservatively because i don't like their stance on social issues. i most closely identify with a libertarian stance on things but i know that if i wrote someone in or voted for an independent my vote wouldn't count anyway.

do you consider Obama is a "liberal"?
i thought he was a "Democrat"
?????
i'm shit @ politics
but i thought i got McCain as liberal = fact
no?
(hey you have a good opportunity to cut my throat just right now, DO IT, bad girl)

under Reagan, more taxes were colledcted and the government spending grew larger than ever before, and government grew more than it had in the previous twenty years(republican/conservative)

Under George Bush (the elder) the USA government spending grew larger than ever before, and our deficit soared into unheard of numbers (republican/consevative)

Under Bill Clinton, the federal budget was BALANCED, government spending was CUT, the deficit was ERASED leaving a surplus of several Billion dollars.
(democrat/liberal)

Under Preznit Dubya (the younger) government spending has almost doubled what reagan spent, the surplus DISAPPEARED overnight, taxes are higher than ever for reguilar people (90% of us) and lower for rich people (the top 10%) our deficit is in the fucking stratosphere, and our governemt, instead o shrinking as republicans always claim, and always LIE about, has increased to new records of beaurocracy and fucking WASTE. (republican/democrat)



don;t believe the lies about liberals and conservatives. look at the RESULTS

i don't care, i don't like any of them.

I agree

mmm
i master the democrat VS republican
but yr version of "liberal" lost me
i think the American intermretation of "liberal" is different to what it is here in La France
Over here "liberal" means "meany right-wing economics"
that's i can't seem to be able to assimilate Obamama (he he) to a liberal

sorry

no offence but Bush son was elected by only a few people because most of the others thought they wouldn't vote because they hated both contenders and the whole world ended up saying Americans are stoopid: they elected Bush!" (+ look what he's done..). Go for the least bad, instead of the worst (just because you reject both per se)

like i said my vision is that of a foreigner
just sayin'
just cruisin'

I'm all for liberals, but I think federal budget is a non-issue. Government spending matters, like what it goes to (education instead of war, etc.) but when people say, "The federal budget is down", it basically means, "Hey, look over here!" Clinton was good (not great, good), but not because of the budget. It was mostly because everyone around him were such pricks. The fact that he balanced it in less than 8 years proves that it's not a big problem.

Here, liberal is associated with the left. It means progressive, change-oriented, and usually implies pro-majority, like social issues (pro gay marriage and abortion, etc.) and an attempt to distribute wealth.

thanx for the updating
that's what i thought
exactly the contrary

interesting
i should have known this
but hey nobody's perfect

see here liberal refers to "libérer" ie. free the economy of everything remotely associated with communism, socialism, and thus do anything you want in a laissez-faire way that means the rich get richer and the poor can rot in dust and shit.

I think we call it liberal because our initial stance when we became a country was "freedom", so now liberalism is "freedom from", or the movement away from dangerous elements of laissez-faire. But I could be wrong.

see. it's just two different implications of what "freedom>> liberty" should be. Laissez-faire or not? Right wing or left-wing.
interesting.
like i said, i'm daft. i should have known this.

Nah. I had no idea the term was different elsewhere, either.

of course it is not as easy as saying, "aizoh!" [chin up!]


but, that is the absolute FIRST step. and of course, you already know I dont believe in change in America, I am moving to Ethiopia, but none-the-less, if the Americans here do not believe in change, then it will never happen.

you still believe in American presidential elections after 1959? jesus where have you been, living in a propaganda machine?

you technical bastard, England would be across the ocean, the English and dutch and french who came to the Americas, were functioning americans, and we my friend, live in their inheritance.

Um.

my argument sounded funny? Well it is. See, you have to believe in change, and I believe in change, however it is in Ethiopia, so to Ethiopia I must go. As Jesus said, where your treasure is your heart will there be, and my treasure is in Ethiopia, and like the vultures to the corpse, I am coming running!

but, if Americans want to change America, they have to believe in that shit like I believe in Ethiopia.

Belief in Ethiopia is fine, but you told me yourself that making a change without believing in the cause is impossible. You're trying to evoke condfidence in a country you don't believe in. I still hold to the idea that you can evoke change in something you don't believe in, but your logic is hard to follow, and saying you don't believe in America just kinda disassembled the point you were making.

How so? My point is that if Americans do not believe in change, it will never happen. That can be true aside from my own personal beliefs in America. In otherwords, I dont believe in the America that most americans believe in [the american dream] however, I do believe that if Americans change their minds, and believe in positive change, rather then apathy, then change can happen in America, so I do not believe in the America of right now, further I believe stronger in Ethiopia so I must go there, even if I did believe in the America of now. If I wanted to stay and change america, I am telling you I would believe in that change, but since I am leaving I dont have the time.

Gotcha. I thought when you said you don't believe in American, you meant you don't believe America is capable of change. What you said makes more sense. Thanks for explaining.

semantics are a bitch over the internet sometimes.