Thank you for that...


Oh yeah...I kind of thought it could be both, in 1 case but not the other.

I think the reason we don't hear about it is because a lot of people (mainly guys, I've found) think that it's "hot" with girls and "disgusting" with guys.

No shit??!?!

Yeah, the old "Buttsecks is teh gross" thing.

I don't understand that mindset. If they think one is hot, why do they think the other is disgusting? I think they are both fine.

I don't understand it either, but that's just the way people are, unfortunately.

Well in the past few years I've come to hear that a lot of straight girls think two guys making out is just as hot as guys thinking two girls making out is hot. I get guys having the lesbians (hot) gay guys (gross) mentality, look at hollywood. There are much more out lesbians, and or bi females, then there are gay men. Being a gay male is still a very dangerous thing to be, and though I would never downplay the struggles of what it must be to be a lesbian woman, its much easier for the majority of people to accept and approve of. I think its unfortunate, and its not much different then the mentality that we had back during segreation, thinking sharing a drinking fountain with a black man or woman was disgusting.

I can understand guys not liking two other men fucking. I mean seriously who wants to see a penis going in another man's ass if they like vaginas and boobies.

Why do so many women (it seems) find gay males attractive and still have lesbian experiences? And why the opposite with males?

Because...maybe...

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hahaha.

i like the idea of gay guys.

I know several people who are gay. and from what ive talked to them about,i think its genetics.

i meant that in more than one ways

gay as in homosexual
gay as a derogatory, pejorative term refering to the uncoolness of said subject

I thought it was a good movie.

as for why two lesbians are considered hot and two guys are considered gross, i think the "hotness" is completely dependent on the feminine aspect. for instance, i don't think guys want to see a two butch girls making out. two hot girls making out are still feminine. the reason people aren't as into watching guys is because it takes away from the masculinity (though i'm sure i'll get someone arguing with me there.) people are attracted to the femininity of women and the masculinity of men, which is why we are attracted to one sex over the other (whichever it may be). when one of those aspects is compromised, that's when the on/off switch in your brain either says "that's hot" or "that's not." just my take on that whole thing.

as far as being born with it, i'm pretty sure it is genetics. i knew my cousin was gay when he was three years old, not because of anything sexual but just because he was into things girls were into and he thought and acted like a little girl. there's a lot more to homosexuality than the sexuality aspect, in my opinion, though i'm a heterosexual so i guess i have no real authority.

are you dense, man?

genetics isn't Fate exactly, Alex's Trip, although there are some people that definitely seem to be born with a high genetic predispostion to be homosexual due to their particular genetic & hormonal makeup & they generally (despite any societal taboos in their general environment) assume a gay lifestyle when they first become sexually active. I of course am not qualified to give any raw numbers about how many people there are who are "born gay" vs. how many people "choose gay"...my best guess would actually be that more people "choose gay" & it's out of societal peer group pressure, hormonal horniness & proximity & their own hang-ups with the opposite sex.

Every animal species on Earth that can possibly be gay has a gay population, I can tell everyone that with certainty.

genetics sets up the threshold & environment determines where you end up amongst that range*, hence environment is more instrumental to cognitive & behavioral development in humans. But to completely discount nature over nurture or vice versa (like Alex's Trip did) is what makes no sense.

*same deal with intelligence or any other attribute. As far as general personalities, they are largely just the sum of our neuroses.

noumenal & nature scene have offered the topic some much-needed good sense (as usual)...

thewall91, i enjoyed that...i have an essay about the first part of what you were writing about. i should go look for it amongst many storage boxes (groan) & reprint here...

Brokeback Mountain is the best movie I've seen in a while, and I'm not being sarcastic.

We're all very gay!

impossible. no human being inherits sexuality. it is not a genetic thing. the only thing genetic is the development of sexual organs with which to use in sexual behavior. you are taught to be sexual from your culture, so if you are gay you are taught to be gay. it is not genetic. if you call homosexuality genetic you are acknowledging homosexuals as mutants. genes could not dictate sexual behavior that could not result in proliferation, it is against nature itself.

genes create the brain
the brain is the source of behavior (roughly speaking)
homosexuality occurs among animals as well
about proliferation, it is not the individual but the species that counts. think of gay people as providing important services to the species which would not be available if they were busy reproducing. traditionally, many shamans for example have been homosexual-- some in siberia even take a husband. and among some native american tribes homosexuals are seen as "magical" people that are gifted with special powers. this of course has gone to the dogs since the arrival of judeochristianity-- what a boring lot :D

according to my brothers psychology text book, about 2 % of the population is actually gay

i thought it was 1 in 10. but whatever.

oh, i was going to say to al the people here, "homosexual" is such a fucking broad term. is a macho man who fucks other men the same as a drag queen? are all lesbians created equal? are lesbians comparable to gay men, and if so, which ones, and how? is "actually" gay the same as bi-curious?. and what about hermaphrodites? transgenders-- pre and post op? are we counting them? how?

the funny thing about this discussion is that we all pretend to know what the object of the discussion is, when in fact we don't know shit and we haven't even defined the terms of what we mean. gender is fluid enough and uncertain enough that these rigid categories we establish without previous thought (much less with the help of science or philosophy!) are definitely going to bust out.

as for getting people to talk about their perspectives, fine. as for "discovering the truth" in an internet discussion-- dream on brothers and sisters and transgenders.

what causes what....?

I totally messed that post up. Just disregard it...I was thinking that logically if it was genetic then why would our upbringings play any role? Because if it were genetics you'd be gay anyway, with any upbringings. But the logic doesn't really work in real life. I can't count one and not the other. It just seemed right in my mind at first.

does homosexuality cause all night gyms or do all night gyms cause homosexuality?

ps- we are ALL mutants

suchfriends, that is one of the funniest/stupidest things i've ever heard.

and i think you're giving waaaaay too much credit to nurture. i'd suggest reading some noam chomsky's stuff about linguistics or steven pinker.

So what I've gathered from this thread is that we're ALL very gay mutants.

ah, finally someone who makes sense! :D

do you know whats really gay?

this thread

did you have teh buttsecks with it?

Ha ha.....negatory.

i like to think that humans are by nature bisexual, or more precisely pansexual. Our unconsious -as manifested in dreams- is certainly pansexual. So hetero- and homo-sexuality are just different modes of human sexuality.

Enough with the Freudian nonsense.

its Genetic and thats a Fact

Apart from these words of supreme wisdom, I'd like to add to a predictable debate by saying: Some of my best friends are gay, so I'm not homophobic - gay people are sick and wrong and should die of AIDS though.




[A joke, lest I be misinterpreted]

the main cause would be genetics..
and upbringing definitely influences the lifestyle choice..

the "cause" itself is controversial..
the conservatives say, if it is a choice, it can be unchosen..

and if it is proven to be genetic - up to the exact gene sequence that causes it - it can be regarded by some as a genetic disorder..

it has been around as long as humans, and the gay ratio to the general population is about 8%..

homosexuality has been observed in sheep, dolphins, penguins, apes, domestic dogs, hammerhead sharks, and a whole list of insects..


sorry -- i bored myself there..

it's genetic, but i think upbringing influences whether or not people allow themselves to act on it, so it might seem like upbringing was the cause rather than a factor in how it manifests. i don't know why people care so much who likes who-- it's sad that all those types who say it ruins the family are the same people that won't let gay people get married, have a family and be boring and domestic like straight people.

and i love gay penguins. they are also the only animal known to practice prostitution though....