Je Concur

heroines!

excellent!

True story:
on Wednesday I had to travel for work to Paris (or actually a small suburb in the southwest, near Versailles and about 20km from the Eiffel Tower). Arrived at the hotel room around 4PM. Connected to the Wifi and read the news of what had happened that day.
Thursday was full with meetings, at noon there was one minute of silence.
Friday morning I went back home, saw some police cars with sirens driving very fast northbound, but hey, it's the peripherique (the ring around Paris) it's always a mess. Got home around 4 or 5PM, turned on the TV and saw the news of what had happened that day.
What got me most was the interview with the father of one of the people that got shot in the supermarket. He was invited for dinner with friends, didn't feel like going but went anyway. And just wanted to buy a bottle of wine as a present for them

I'm still a bit in shock, and will probably need to go back to Paris next week. Hurray!


Low - Murderer

One more thing before I go
One more thing I'll ask you Lord
You may need a murderer
Someone to do your dirty work

Don't act so innocent
I've seen you pound your fist into the earth
And I've read your book
It seems that you could use another fool
Well I'm cruel
And I look right through

You must have more important things to do
So if you need a murderer
Someone to do your dirty work

Cain slew Abel, Seth knew not why
For if the children of Israel were to multiply
Why must any of the children die?
So he asked the Lord
And the Lord said:

"Man means NOTHING, he means less to me
Than the lowliest cactus flower
Or the humblest Yucca tree
He chases round this desert
'Cause he thinks that's where I'll be
That's why I love mankind

"I recoil in horror from the foulness of thee
From the squalor and the filth and the misery
How we laugh up here in heaven at the prayers you offer me
That's why I love mankind"

The Christians and the Jews were having a jamboree
The Muslims and the Hindus joined on satellite TV
They picked their four greatest priests
And they began to speak
They said, "Lord, a plague is on the world
Lord, no man is free
The temples that we built to you
Have tumbled into the sea
Lord, if you won't take care of us
Won't you please, please let us be?"

And the Lord said
And the Lord said:

"I burn down your cities – how blind you must be
I take from you your children and you say 'how blessed are we'
You all must be CRAZY to put your faith in me
That's why I love mankind
You really need me
That's why I love mankind"

That is pretty awesome... though it kinda looks more like an old skool russian propaganda piece (y'know - the blonde hair and such...)

Having skimmed this thread, what with all of you being insanely frustrating, here's a couple of things.

1 - [For those who pretend to be left-wing but continue to perpetuate stereotypes of given arbitrary groups of people] It is important to break down the fallacious logic of '[x] belongs to a religious group', '[y] belongs to same religious group AND has committed murderous acts' and 'THEREFORE [x] = [y]. {For Ned's benefit: [x] == [y]}

2 - Lookup 'racialisation' {Residents of the United States or those territories which recognise American English, look up 'racialization'}

3 - The protection of minorities is imperative. cf the song 'strange fruit' or whatever makes you feel comfortable

4 - The material dialectic. Look it up.

5 - I get that some of you feel there is a direct correlation between 'freedom of speech' and 'saying what you want' - maybe investigate the notion that that isn't actually the case in most territories, and think about why the United Kingdom has never preserved 'freedom of speech' but has preserved the litigious rights to criminalise people on the basis of propagating prejudicious or otherwise offensive speech [And we'll ignore that that those litigious acts are badly practised].

6 - Does anyone ask why we preserve the 'freedom of speech' of those who chose to exercise that freedom of speech in the mode of prejudicious and stereotypical cartoons which contribute little more than what is effectively repeating Shylock?

7 - Yes, religion is a dick. So are any given number of ways of understanding the world. Do you know any atheists who are awful humans? If the answer is no, find some, and then ask yourself whether it's their religion or lack of religion which makes them reprehensible.

8 - Do you think morally or ethically? If the latter, perhaps you might want to consider the defense of minorities regardless of their opinions. A racist in a wheelchair doesn't deserve to made to feel inhuman because their legs are irregular. If morality, then read the fuck up on it.

9 - I find you all entirely disgusting. Bizarrely, those of you who haven't even begun to interrogate your human disgrace are somehow more defensible than those of you who profess 'radical-than-thou'.

Post-script[ish] - I know, I'm standing as a moral arbiter. I don't believe any of you will read this, I don't believe any of you are even left wing, I don't care about your moronic ripostes and I totally don't want to enter into anything like a dialogue with you. If you want to sincerely ask questions and be polite about it, go ahead and PM but you won't, because you're criminally moronic.

Those are all good points, but lost on both Islamic and Christian fundamentalists as well as reactionary "liberals."

the mayor of rotterdam is a sunni and the son of an imam and he's fucking awesome. he's probably a target now-- may they never get him.



yes, this is where it can get tricky, isn't it? because on the one hand, the extremists don't exist in a vacuum, and on the other hand, a great many muslims are against them, like that awesome mayor of rotterdam.

but why discuss this, when it's easier to throw a tantrum?


the protection of some minorities. minorities that i'm against: pedophiles (they need help but i won't defend their "right" to fuck children), murderers, al qaeda sleepers.

i once counter-picketed a phelps demonstration (they were in my campus shitting on someone) but i never felt the divine right to go and execute the assholes, thank fuck. still, there are points of struggle in every society.


*snort*

hegelian myths


france has its own laws regarding speech and charlie hebdo journalists have been sued and fired ("sacked" in your province) over antisemitism charges. don't like the cartoons--take them to court.


as you said, rules vary by territory. are you discussing france?


traditionally, in christian nations, moral reprehensibility has been attributed to "godlessness", but some statistical studies i can't quote right now have found that atheists are on average more moral than the religious. that i suspect has to do with the fact that an atheist would have to actually grapple with moral questions rather than claim absolute knowledge of right and wrong.


are you talking about a specific variety of morality and ethics? or are you talking in absolute terms? because i'd like to know if you're asking for everyone to share in your morality. casuistically speaking, i'd have to find out who is the racist and what he's doing to see what is justified. e.g., can you bring up charles krauthammer's wheelchair when discussing his warmongering propaganda which could get millions killed?


last i recall that's how you felt about eggs. i like eggs!


i don't know about disgrace. everyone has some. i've never seen you analyze your own. in maoist fashion you should perform a self-criticism first.


of your own world, yes. who else is going to do it?


and yet you wrote it


is there an intrinsic goodness in any form of "wingness"?


and yet here we are


but still you wrote


of whom? and why?


alternatively, if you perform a self-criticism, you might realize that you're being dogmatic and your histrionics make you terrible at persuasion


some of those are points, but you're way too generous

^ I can't tell if you're joking, which irks me because things were getting sweet.

Thanks to Glice for dropping in and to !@#$%! for not ignoring him. Seriously, that was a good read and we could do with more of that.

I like you plips, but I'm not biting.

People with imaginary friends REALLY piss me off.

"Condemning the attack is not enough: unless you strongly endorse the right of anyone to make fun of any religion/prophet, you are not a moderate Muslim."
—Bill Maher

I'll stick a gun into your testicles if you don't agree with me.

I'm not responding because I'm not convinced you've even thought about what I'm saying. I'm on the verge of going a bit Dave 2600 here but I really don't think you're interested in debate or thought, I think you're about trading prejudices. I'm really not into talking to people who've pushed female friends of mine off this board.

During human development, the lanugo grows on fetuses as a normal part of gestation, but is usually shed and replaced by vellus hair at about 33 to 36 weeks of gestational age. As the lanugo is shed from the skin, it is normal for the developing fetus to consume the hair with the fluid, since it drinks from the amniotic fluid and urinates it back into its environment.

you're not a mind reader---i thought about what you're saying. you're not discussing anything though, you're just trying to cower/shame people into your line of thinking. which is, your know, maybe an accepted method in your cause, but you're not convincing anyone here i think. "i hate you all, you all think wrong" = a terrible argument.


what debate? you're not offering any real ideas, just your expressions of disgust and an abundance of tears. i already mentioned where i thought things could get interesting and merit exploration, but you're not going to go for that because (if we're going to mind-read here) you have no interest in discussion but rather in proclaiming your moral superiority/another's moral inferiority. highly unproductive. stupid, really. an appeal to (self-appointed) authority.


i recall you used to torment satan regularly and she eventually got fed up and left. if we'll go by that then i'm not into talking either, but can i punch you in the face for that?

i get that you didn't like her, but that didn't make her any less female.

blasphemy is the term used by people in power to critique any thought/idea that cuts down the source of their power.

fuck that shit. the right to blaspheme is INALIENABLE.

cuz it is all a con.

BILLIONS of people in the East are and have been wholly unconcerned with "redemption" .

it might be very important to make very careful distinctions like glice is suggesting, but to me this is just an adapation of the racism of bad faith.

because we might be sensible rational liberals who want to very carefully demarcate a line separating good muslims from bad, which is what glice actually means by what he says. but doing this will not ITSELF alter what muslims actually are. its not helping the moderates to defeat the fundies.

this is why so much left or lib anti racism is to me becoming increasingly ethically abhorrent, because it is basically about adopting the right perspective. its an inverted form of the bad racism. but the problem with this is that it supports the magical thinking behind anti racism, which is basically the idea that if we just police representations of race with ferocious precision, then we can ignore the other in the right and moral way.

but you know, there are a lot of people in england who happen to have black skin, and a very high majority of them are poor and have a lot less opportunities to do things. and the biggest problem these people face is not their skin colour. its the same problem everyone else with different skin colours face.

theres nothing we can do with the system anymore to make any kind of real progression. we can maybe fend off regression in some respects, but thats about it.

so i dont give a fucking shit about these new hysterical puritan post liberals. the americans are the worst. these people HAVE become an oppressive thought police and are witch hunting. getting people fired, destroying careers. when they went after alec baldwin he wrote an nyt piece apologizing and mentioned how when he contacted glbt groups they assumed he wanted to donate 10k figures to their cause as a way of apologizing. this is a con.

this is not doing any good for the minorities in question. its about WHITE RICH PEOPLE gaining power and making money and just distracting themselves with their own petty rage most of the time. its about an imaginary democratic discourse that will apparently save us all. religion in other words.

its mostly so removed from the actual lives of 'minorities' or whatever you want to call the groups that white rich people have to bless with their holy speech codes.

there are a lot of dipshits on the left like lenins tomb whom if you read on charlie hebdo, is basically saying that the MOST IMPORTANT thing to exist on this planet politically is a magical space in the media where white peoples perception of other races is formed and if we just get that right, just adjust our attitudes to that, then we're moral and we solve all our problems and everything else doesnt matter.

i mean, thats the game we play nowadays isnt it?

and its such fucking bullshit.

everything we criticize ourselves for - patriarchy, racism, intolerance, fundamentalist fanatacism, superstition, medieval backwardsness - well in islam you get all that shit times a fucking thousand.

and so you'd think that we'd actively vow to destroy it, for the sake of muslims themselves.

i mean they are crucifying people. and we have no response because how could we? but everything about us, everything that is decadent and as far away from traditionalism and fundamentalism and theocracy, those are the best and most interesting parts of us.

but we are so utterly entranced by our own stupid politics that the word racism appears and we can no longer think.

and we wont stand up to islam properly.

we had the crusades and then i think we forgot they even existed and they came back and traumatized us. we dont want to confront them properly because most of us cant. we cant summon any values that would lead us to willingly exterminate them. we just want to forget its going on.

i dont care really. i dont take the politics of race or any identitarian stuff seriously. it shouldnt be taken seriously because its mostly nonsense and stupidity and the attempt to find universals that you are just not going to make work the way you want to.

so glice can imply i am a right winger, which is really fine with me. i dont want to be on the right or the left anymore and i dont care what anyone wants to label me.

like the things i just said about islam in this post - you say them and you get the immediate response - but are you implying that ALL muslims are like that - you cant escape the universalism. you cant say things outside the universalist context.

i want to say "im not a maniac like you who thinks of themselves as an omnipotent god or the secular democratic upgrade of the same idea". because thats all it really is. if i say that this meal was undercooked am i implying that all meals in the world are? what the fuck?

how anyone thinks you can accomplish anything from these terms is beyond me. really, the people that think like this are just inverted racists that cant accept the other. their conception of what they are is as supernatural as what muslims believe.

i know someone will tldr this but i dont mind, because its not even for anyone else to read.

Uhhh... well, look, I just went to the office's whiteboard and drew these sumbitches. Maybe they don't look much like the stereotypes, but what do imaginary friends look like, anyway?

i will say one thing, if it comes down to the west versus islam, then fuck islam. you cannot be a sane human and disagree with that. you cannot look at the civilizational achievement of the west then compare it with islam and say we're about equal.

we're goddamn not. it is so beyond pointless to call this "racism". its just how things are.

if we play the nuke game and think "what country in what time period can we just wipe out and it be of no loss to humanity?" - its not japan is it.

if it was fundie xtians who were inbreeding, cutting off peoples heads, stoning, imposing draconian codes, laws, punishments and finance you can fucking BET i want them to have zero power.

i am still ironically xtian enough to want the actual people caught in this system to be freed from it. i would be happy with this happening by whatever means. i am waffling here but my point is that the standards of islam at its worst are not something i want anyone to even have the choice to live under. im a liberal fascist of some sorts then maybe.

islam would bring us a global dark age if it could. but lets be fair, most humans want, deep in their souls, a dark age. and most western humans just want to be sneering hedonistic pigs. and what we want most of all is everything we dont like, like murder and death, to be censored from reality by our media itself. magic in other words. still, some pigs are better than others.

if you truly grasp why equality is a part of liberal ethics and why it has to be in our laws and customs - which the majority of western people obviously don't, then there DOES NOT come some moment where you have to decide that the worst of islam is merely a figment of our racist imagination and pending instant upgrade once we represent muslims the right way in our media.

The right and left have been exposed as being the same side of the coin before. They are allowed to dominate discussion about politics as opposites arguing a point that doesn't exist in reality. You really need to get some decent books to read and stop vomiting redundant opinions to make you feel smarter than you really are.

i don't think that the problem with his argument is whether the critique of "wingness" is original (why should originality matter in this context?) but rather whether "islam" is a monoblock or not. this is not the time of the crusades after all, is it?

still, a culture defined by religion or religiosity presents a serious danger to secularism. while the west is nominally "christian", the state is now secular everywhere you go. in a way, "christian nations" are no longer such, and in spite of the protestations of fringe elements, this is a good thing for freedom and for peace-- seriously. george bush is a born again who talked to chirac about "gog and magog" as an excuse to invade then-secular iraq. i think in his cokehead brain he seriously thought he was doing "god's work" (and he even claimed "god is on our side" once i think).

now you could point to secular muslim nations like turkey, but even they are having problems keeping the islamists out of government (they have an islamist in power currently, no? though just not such a monster--yet). who else? indonesia? the state regulates religion, and pancasila youth > sonic youth. but seriously, indonesia holds out as secular so far. other countries? anyone here knows? one could look in wikipedia i guess.

a pity that islamic civilization, which was a beacon of enlightenment in the middle ages, has been enduring its own dark ages as of late-- from iran to sudan, primitivism has been steadily taken over. just look at what happened to poor iran-- a fucking disgrace, that's what. pakistan islamicized in the 70s as well.

as for immigrants coming from such countries-- as an immigrant myself, i'm with the mayor of rotterdam. reasonably integrate (reasonably, not absolutely) or gtfo.

i dont accept that it just goes - fundie islam ---- > moderate islam

it also goes - moderate islam ---- > fundie islam

you can be a moderate peace loving muslim and still marry your first cousin and have your daughters genitals mutilated.

convincing parents with rational argumentation is not going to end things like this. it will only end by domino effect once it becomes understood that its not something other families are doing anymore. fucking liberals that CANT SAY that its MUSLIMS that do this. that cant say that it was MUSLIMS doing what they did in rotterdam - these are just COWARDS who dont give a shit about the actual harm being done because their careers are more important.

and these cowards are the inverted form of racists. on the other end of the racist axis. were the other does not offend you, you overcompensate against that, but with the same ideal fantasy of ERASING the other that all true racists operate under.

a freak like me is just advocating we all ACTUALLY accept the other AS THEY ARE which means you have to be an adult. you dont jump to conclusions based on group think, you dont pretend they are all our clones ruined by representation, you actually think about them, this entails accepting that you are an other to someone else and maybe doesnt make you feel so omnipotent.

-

does it fucking surprise me that young people from the uk and usa are going jihad? AFTER WHAT HAPPENED TO IRAQ? jesus fucking christ!

but lets not let our guilt conscience blind us to the fact that islam is by and large a load of horseshit thats indicative of some very evil behaviours.

lets not settle for islam as the culture we want for any humans. it is its own oppression. nothing enlightened about pretending its not what it is.

i see muslims almost everyday. i go to their shops. i sit and eat alone in their restaurants if i feel like it. i dont react to the stares when im shopping in their stores for cheap food.

i want all these people free from their religion because i want to be free from the shitty protestant fundamentalism that surrounded me my whole life. that fucked up my life before it even started, that sabotages the economy and culture i existed in. that bullied and harrassed and witchhunted and threatened and DEPRESSED THE EVERY LOVING SHIT out of anyone just trying to avoid becoming its next victim. i had to settle for such fucking misery when i could have been reading darwin.

integrate or gtfo - yeah - this is basically it - unless its nazi germany or something. you have to integrate on some level, it simply HAS to happen in some way. within a generation or two the accent is gone and noone can tell the difference unless your skin colour contrasts too much.

with islam, i want to contaminate it on the symbolic level and destroy it with all that good decadent liberal stuff. that stuff that was and still is so fucking painful for vain narcissistic humans to deal with - like naturalism and nihilism and the failure of magical thinking to produce magical results.

islam just sucks. at least have the decency to admit that. to refuse to be satisified with it because it makes you a good white person.

tribes in the jungle that have no human contact, life also sucks for them, the face starvation and extinction at a level most of us dont. my regular order at mcdonalds would taste real fucking good to them. theyd love that shit and ask for more. dont be a fucking ultracunt and deny things like that.

im prepared to say islam sucks and its not something i accept for other people. i dont think this crosses some boundary. i think a lot of muslims must feel like this, but since nearly 50% of them think you should be killed for leaving the religion, they're not going to be very loud about it.

and muslims cant do it themselves, we need to help them. and the ones that wont? i know what western civ has done to them since the dark ages ended, many bad things, but you know, the world is not good vs bad. its more like good/bad vs. bad/good with no guarantees.

all people deserve better than the narrowed horizons of fundamentalism.

Don't you dare fucking misrepresent me. You of all people purport to understand representation in language and you or all people will misrepresent at all points. You're horrendous, and you are -at best- representing the worst of neo-liberal bullshit. Always, forever, Amen.

Wait, whoah! I know some of you are going to respond but remember: I THINK YOU'RE ALL REALLY STUPID AND I'M READING NOTHING OF WHAT YOU WRITE.

Unless drone is here. Is he? Probably not. Sigh.

NB - if I have confederates, please quote this post hitherto, henceforth, for eternity. Merci.

so i've crossed some line and now im all problematic and horrendous, yet noone is explaining why? if i said this stuff about xtians - no problem. if i say it about muslims the little RACISM alarm goes off in everyones amgdyla and they can't think straight anymore because they have so much emotionally invested.

do people need a massive warning sign attached to my posts that reads: THE FOLLOWING CRITIQUE OF MUSLIMS IS NOT MEANT TO APPLY TO ALL MUSLIMS!

because its universalism or death right? no other option.

as long as we maintain our anti racist attitude, islam will slowly become progressive. oh wait - it won't and it isn't. shit. cognitive dissonance time.

gets real ugly at this point because the implicit core of peoples anti racism is a nice relaxing erasure of the other whom we don't have to accept as they are (different) but just relentlessly attack any racist representations of, thus making them basically disadvantaged versions of us by default.

ive made this point 3 or 4 times now.

if i listed a load of facts about say white americans from the east coast and found loads of patterns and common features, is that racist? obviously not because these people are us.

if we criticize islam does that automatically mean that racist idiots are going to go out and attack them in public? no it doesnt. if we just dont criticize islam, are its extremist elements going to stop attacking us? hell no.

in the end i'm against even moderate islam. this does not mean i do not
desire peaceful co-existence with them, it means im opposed to their doctrines and ideology and culture. it means i see these things as potentially separable from the people that compose islam.

go listen to moderate muslims and you will hear the same message time and time again, condemning the violence but only because it threatens prosperous muslims who want to spread their religion in democracies by other means.

but of course it's just TOO DIFFICULT for us to accept that our beautiful souls are not the default setting for humanity and that other people with actual differences can exist. too hard for us to deal with.

if we all adhere to glices' fanatical religious progressivism then we can't even use our own stupid culture to make the slightest attempt to ridicule the shitty aspects of islam. cant do it cos racist. you can do it to xtianity but not muslims. i bet they are so happy that we're collaborating with their most fundamentalist elements to make sure ridiculous bullshit like halal stays around forever! yeah! lets not chip away at their superstitious patriarchal abuse structure at all, lets RESPECT IT cos of DIVERSITY. female genital mutiliation for all.

glice has been neg repping and pm'ing me.

dont really have anymore to say on this since ive already written loads.


that's basically it.

glice has told me i could be "destroyed" if i talked to more intelligent people than syg but he hasn't explained who or where these people are and why i would be so keen to be "destroyed" by them. nor has he delivered any kind of response other than to say he only skimmed one of my posts and has declared it and thus by extension me - wait for it - racist.

well i know better than to question the judgement of my white superiors when it comes to who is and isn't racist. i shall apologize, lose my job and go silent in penance, although i understand that once this mark has been placed i am forever ontologically inferior and should be excised from society all together. i shall abandon all rights to speak on this (or any?) subject.

glice does not have to explain why the post is racist, he just has to say that it is and thus by virtue of his whiteness, it is so. this might be hard to understand but if you want an analogy, think of the way a racist person just "doesn't like" foreigners".

but who gives a shit? nobody, that's who.





that probably happened to him at the indoctrination camp. it's the trauma speaking. don't worry about it for yourself.

appeals to authority/classic religious bullshit.

i am kinda worried dude because glice just pm'ed me offering me free train tickets to a complete relocation somewhere in the countryside. apparently this is gonna be the 'final solution' to the problem of racists in our society, (a group of sub humans glice just informed me today i am one of). it's such a tempting offer since you can't get employment and are hated in this society for being a racist. you can have your career or anything taken away from you just for making the slightest joke which gives away your racism (which you might not even realize you have in you until the right kind of person, like glice, tells you).

i mean, i didnt even know i was being racist until glice said so. who knows WHAT is racist and what isnt anymore? only the right kind of white person i guess.

oh well, at least if this camping trip turns out to be some sort of a scam i'll be away from the city and avoid any islamic terrorist attacks!

i guess there wouldn't have been any unless racists like me had apparently said that ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS and so brought it upon ourselves with our racism. so i guess that shit is my fault too. i cant do anything right! i wonder if i can get a group of racists together and we can found our own nation? anyone know if there's any spare land available, like in the middle east or somewhere?

that's exactly how they try to work you so you submit to them

alright, have fun today

OK, I don't wanna make light of a horrible event...


...but come on, this is freakin' HILARIOUS. Or hughlaurieous, as the House fan in me prefers. I wonder if the NSA monitors THAT message board... :D

plips do you want to share more about this lost piece of internet history?

i too remember the hole board (kittyradio?)

it is indeed fucking hilarious that chang was PRETTY ON THE INSIDE, BABY UGLY, UGLY FROM THE BACK!!!!!!!!!

He Was The Girl You Know Cant Look You In The Eye
Until He Cracked And Came To School With A Tech Nine

(also to be serious plips, you know that you have absolutely no responsibility and nothing to feel guilty about right?)

pssst. if you still know what the site's address was you might be able to find it back through the wayback machine

plips you arent responsible for anything.

no need to be so freaked out

http://wapo.st/1EuAnNv

--

@ plips - awesome drawing!