That one sucks. This is my favourite Beatles song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmLEZxiflw

last time I read your blog posts about them I laughed out really hard about the sgt pepper review, which i loved, and that was the only time i paid attention to the beatles before i decided that i loved them. even though i wouldn't say you converted me, i gave the (streaming) album one more listen and decided to pay more attention to the rest.

my smartphone is being repaired at the moment. but you know there are no winners on the internet already, do you?

jONBOY, I'm AT HOME!!!! NO LIFE!!!

That is one my faves too. Pretty apt for the way I feel at the moment too.

Thanks, for I moment I feared you were posting that from an an east-London pub bog again.

Real winners don't use the internet, they use drugs... in weightlifting and cycling at least.

Your dad is here wearing your mum's clothes! do you waNNA SAY HELLO TO HIM??? Uhhh??:confused: :mad:

I realise that you're not necessarily talking economically, but I think this isn't primarily about format. Some of you like tapes (which I abandoned as a format ages ago and haven't missed). Some of you like digital formats, some LPs, some CDs. Most have a mixture of all of them.

I tend not to like having music on my computer because my primary relationship with music was that it was a physical thing. Lee is the same, apparently. A lot of people on this forum are. Whether one is better than the other is kind of moot to me - call it a primary psychological bond, if you will. The fact I tend not to feel anything on my hard-drive is 'real' is less to do with the facts of the matter and more to do with how my emotional relationship with music was formed.

But the economic thing is a biggie. I do think that it's had a negative effect on the ability of bands/ musicians to be musicians. There are fundamentally two reasons why your favourite band aren't visiting your town/ city: they're broke, or your scene's shit - both are from the same cause, IMO. I don't mean your scene's lacking in hype bands - I mean people don't go out to watch bands. Where I'm living now has just enough people watching gigs to make it run at a moderate loss. It's run on goodwill, but at least people turn out for the gigs. Where I was previously had some good bands who would routinely play to no-one; a large-ish out-of-town band comes around and suddenly people can be bothered to leave the house.

[Edit: please note that the reason ATP are throwing money at bands to reform is because it's much more of a money-spinner than supporting bands through years of not-selling-that-well, and they're the biggest shakers in 'alternative' music]

I think it's difficult to impute a direct causality between 'change in relationship to music' and 'bands are broke as fuck therefore no-one can tour' - there are, obviously, many other factors at play. But fundamentally I see the over-consumption of free music as essentially devaluing music itself. We don't need big studios and massive vans; but unless I'm headlining a 100+ venue (unlikely at present), I can't afford to play in the next nearest city, and it's unlikely I'd get paid for supports. With a full-time job I can make the loss 'because I care about the music, man' but ultimately musicians aren't getting paid and the music scene is struggling as a result.

This is kind of a trickle-down thing - don't worry about downloading BEP's album, they make their money back on product placements in videos and other indirect revenue streams. But the idea we've inherited from the 80s - perhaps emblematised by Fugazi or whoever - of 'indie or die' simply can't happen any more, and most decent/ creative/ experimental/ blah musicians will not come to your town until they're retired or win the lottery.

I don't want to be whingey about this, but surely people must have opinions on this? I realise that the long-standing, boring old fuckers like me have probably made their points known a few times, but what about the people who've not been on this forum forever? Do you just not have opinions on things now?

Also worth noting that I think the last time we did this was for mp3s/ slsk etc, probably around the 06/07 mark - things have changed a bit, no?

Fine. I'll play. I actually don't have a firm stance on the issue, just a few questions and random thoughts. But you asked.

-Aren't record companies notorious for ripping off their bands? I mean, mechanichal rights are a few cents for each copy (so sorry--"unit") sold. I can see why the company has taken a hit, but does it make much difference to the artist?

-How many companies have gone under? I don't know. I'm asking.

-Bands have always had a rough time on the road, haven't they? I just heard an amusing story about Elvis Costello and the Attractions going flat broke in the middle of a US tour in the early days. The drummer made the mistake of mentioning he had a credit card. He's probably still paying it off.

-I always assumed there was a sort of "If I download something and dig it, I'll make an effort to make sure the artist will eventually get some of my cash" mentality among music lovers. Maybe not. Tightwads. I was hoping some sort of "pay what you feel" system would work, but maybe that's putting too much faith in humanity.

- I too feel music has been devalued, but only because of the sheer glut of it floating around. I'm guilty, you're probably guilty, lots of people you know are guilty. Simple economics: too much stuff, value goes down. But then, how does the indie artist get their material out there? I know! Tough situation.

-Barely related: I took my external hard drive to a pal's place to share some stuff I stole. His fucking cat knocked it to the floor and it hasn't worked since. There are quite a few lessons in this short story, I think.

-This is just childish: I think back to my younger days when I'd pay over ten bucks for a new tape. I did this all the time. Hundreds of times. So now the industry's hurting? Fuck them!

-Maybe I'm a different beast nowadays, but I can't think of too many instances when I'd buy some music without having a fairly good idea of what I'm getting beforehand. Seems streaming is very important to getting cash out of folks like me.