i think hat and beard has touched the way i've been feeling about zorn, he's good but there's this sense of outrageaousness that's a little unnecesarry...even my favorite moments, bands or albums by him seem to have this aftertaste i'm not really keen on and i think it's what h&b just said.

i haven't voted myself, painkiller (the studio stuff or their live stuff with yoshida tatsuya), naked city and some of his solo stuff, i want to give masada a good listen.

Live, Painkiller was one of the most intense experiences I've ever had. On record, they don't do nearly the same for me, though still good. I think the first Naked City is still my favorite recording.

when did you see painkiller?

not necessarily true. i've heard some really bad experimental shit. i've made some really bad experimental shit. patton has made some really bad experimental shit. that doesn't mean that he still isn't an incredibly talented vocalist and brave in terms of where he pushes his voice.

Then I don't know, maybe I just don't get him then...

probably. that sort of thing isn't for everyone, and just because you like one 'experimental' thing doesn't mean you'll like it all, so i get you.

he's a good crooning vocalist but he is completely unoriginal; furthermore, his 'braveness' with his voice, he wouldn't have never even imagined to do that have he not heard ruins or the boredoms first, he's just doing a watered down version, probably thinking people in the west would never catch on with japanese bands.

patton is considered an avant-garde figure by people who think trent reznor is a noise musician.

In Seattle in either '95 or '96. I was going through a divorce, and it really was the perfect Painkiller.

Yeah, unfortunately if I don't like something, I tend to think it is true rubbish, and people who like it don't have any good taste. I need to work on that. Until I do though, I think I am in good company here.

painkiller kicking ass fuck yeah!

and no he never played with ruins.

yeah, patton's pretty overrated, i mean i fucking love mr. bungle, but that's because of the genius of trey spruance so..

as for Tzadik, i've heard a shitload of releases from them and they've all been worth a listen. i mean, jon - "smoke" is amazing!!!!! it sounds like a 4 year old girl playing organ and singing about dogs!

as for zorn.. hmm.. i dunno, i mainly and randomly have listened to various masada performances and bootlegs over the years so i couldn't say. he's cool though.

Top three favorites of Zorn:
1.Big Gundown
2.Naked City
3.Painkiller

Zorn I'm not terribly fond of, but I can recognise he's a pretty talented chap. Sometimes he seems a bit jack-of-all-trades. I quite like Masada, and some of the film score things; the rest of it leaves me cold. BUT. Unlike Patton, I get the impression he's doing something well that I don't like, rather than doing something I might like for the sake of being 'wacky' or somesuch. It's not that Patton came from a rap metal band, it's that everything he does screams dilletante at me. Lines in the sand, etc.